tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7318606957645672999.post370320289229761752..comments2023-09-29T06:24:50.012-06:00Comments on A POST-MORMON LIFE: Limitationspostmormongirlhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13455759739126093761noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7318606957645672999.post-74116557869320138312012-12-26T20:21:01.028-06:002012-12-26T20:21:01.028-06:00Thank you Brian!Thank you Brian!postmormongirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13455759739126093761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7318606957645672999.post-59480328373295429892012-12-26T13:49:52.902-06:002012-12-26T13:49:52.902-06:00Great post, awesome blog, strong work!Great post, awesome blog, strong work!Theologician https://www.blogger.com/profile/01717653052306705319noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7318606957645672999.post-5932196420286427582012-12-02T21:31:06.416-06:002012-12-02T21:31:06.416-06:00A lot of this is just me being overly anal about s...A lot of this is just me being overly anal about semantics. My background in research has drilled into me the need for not avoiding over-arching conclusions as well as the necessity of being very precise in my definitions. postmormongirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13455759739126093761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7318606957645672999.post-80030982417999046932012-12-02T20:19:40.477-06:002012-12-02T20:19:40.477-06:00I feel almost exactly as you do and still consider...I feel almost exactly as you do and still consider myself an atheist. Funny how that works.Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07339125862340793733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7318606957645672999.post-64322754611212434382012-11-29T15:57:23.298-06:002012-11-29T15:57:23.298-06:00Oh, I forgot to add, 20 points to the first person...Oh, I forgot to add, 20 points to the first person to point out the one deity on that list that is a ficticious charecter from a fantasy serieslujlphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04733034389186623855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7318606957645672999.post-35557816121854764162012-11-29T14:37:31.488-06:002012-11-29T14:37:31.488-06:00Then I think that would qualify me as fully agnost...Then I think that would qualify me as fully agnostic.postmormongirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13455759739126093761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7318606957645672999.post-57967752040614948632012-11-29T14:33:17.108-06:002012-11-29T14:33:17.108-06:00My point is not to get her to change her mind or h...My point is not to get her to change her mind or her position, its to clarify the reason behind her position.<br /><br />As I see it the difference between weak atheism and agnostocism is while an agnostic will say there is no eveidence one way or antoher a weak athiest would say a lack of evidence for could be seen as evidence against, but not 100% conclusive evidence<br /><br />And to my question, I know people who say they are agnostic to El/Elohiem/Israel/Yhwh (Jebus's daddy) but are 100% hard atheist towards Thor, and Ishtar, and Marduk and thousands of other dieties.<br /><br />In other words, I dont feel it is semantics, I feel it highlights the very core of whether or not someone truly is agnostic, as opposed to just trying to be unobtrusivelujlphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04733034389186623855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7318606957645672999.post-14127164002618149222012-11-29T14:25:53.793-06:002012-11-29T14:25:53.793-06:00I'm not arguing the different conceptions, I&#...I'm not arguing the different conceptions, I'm saying unless you are as equally agnotic about all god as you are the one god, you arent really agnosticlujlphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04733034389186623855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7318606957645672999.post-4658059295892634862012-11-29T12:38:43.173-06:002012-11-29T12:38:43.173-06:00No, I don't find this to be preachy. My issue...No, I don't find this to be preachy. My issues are with the people who take the hard-line approach of "knowing" and who feel that everyone needs to believe the same - not with the concept of faith in the unknown. <br /><br />I guess we both possess a type of faith - for me, that would be science and humanity, for you, I would say faith in a supernatural deity. postmormongirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13455759739126093761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7318606957645672999.post-82193058951609789382012-11-28T23:44:33.816-06:002012-11-28T23:44:33.816-06:00I have been wrestling with "knowing" and...I have been wrestling with "knowing" and faith lately. I am an active member of the LDS church, and I don't see that changing for me. I often participate in testimony meeting, during lessons, and in other settings where I am able to share what I believe with others. For years I felt comfortable saying that I "knew" that various gospel principles--including the existence of a Heavenly Father / God and Jesus Christ--were true. I DO see evidence all around me, especially when I am able to spend extended periods out in the woods. However, I find it more difficult to be so confident of what I "know." I realize that I am still at the level of faith. I have faith that God exists. I have faith that Jesus Christ atoned for the pain and sins of the world. I have faith that many other principles of the gospel are true. <br /><br />I think the LDS culture tends to discount faith. Even though we know it is the first principle of the gospel, I think there is a general expectation that the "good" Mormons will grow out of it. That we should go from our initial faith, through faith-promoting experiences, and so come to knowledge. But even after 40 years of membership in the Church, I'm still at faith. And I actually think that's how it's supposed to be. For me, I get a little nervous when others around me start glibly saying that they "know" this and they "know" that, and I'm listening to them thinking hmmm... How do you KNOW?<br /><br />Which is the cool thing about faith. The point isn't to "graduate" to knowledge, the point is to endure through faith. To endure with not knowing. To have wonderings and doubts and insecurities and still serve the way Christ taught. To me, that makes it faith. You don't know, but you have faith in Christ, (even though you STILL don't know), and you do it anyway.<br /><br />Please don't think that I'm trying to be preachy in this comment. It's rambly because it's something I'm still working on figuring out. What struck me when I read your post is that your definition of agnostic and my definition of faith are two sides of the same coin. We're almost talking about the same thing, but we've come to different ways of wrapping our heads around it. What do you think?Kathy Hayniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08128459743012799948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7318606957645672999.post-781641719675730572012-11-28T21:20:59.569-06:002012-11-28T21:20:59.569-06:00Most cultures have some conception of a deity/deit...Most cultures have some conception of a deity/deities - arguing the different conceptions of a higher power ignores the deeper issues.postmormongirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13455759739126093761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7318606957645672999.post-57469694603570932512012-11-28T16:24:08.670-06:002012-11-28T16:24:08.670-06:00Why argue about semantics? Postmormongirl said tha...Why argue about semantics? Postmormongirl said that God may be out there somewhere, or not, and without evidence, she's not going to take a stand. Lujlp, you call that position weak atheism, she calls it agnosticism. Is there a purpose in trying to get her to change what label she gives to her opinion? Even using your definition, I think she fits more under agnosticism anyway. She didn't say that she privileges the possibility of the Judeochristian deity over others--she's just waiting for evidence about any sort of deity. <br /><br />People who are somehow foiled by your question sound thoughtless. Any agnostic who has given half a thought to the question probably isn't limiting him/herself to the god of the Bible. Kristenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09949516359154119866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7318606957645672999.post-41392784884045909372012-11-28T15:36:47.140-06:002012-11-28T15:36:47.140-06:00There is no evidence for or against these either, ...There is no evidence for or against these either, are you agnostic about all of them as well?<br /><br />The list exceeds posting limit follow the link to see the list<br />https://www.facebook.com/groups/307593812637270/permalink/425085184221465/lujlphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04733034389186623855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7318606957645672999.post-81450035156743448872012-11-28T14:49:36.036-06:002012-11-28T14:49:36.036-06:00Agnosticism is basing your belief on evidence - th...Agnosticism is basing your belief on evidence - there is no evidence either for or against God. Personally, I lean towards atheism. But - and this was the point of my post - I see nothing wrong with accepting the limitations of our knowledge. postmormongirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13455759739126093761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7318606957645672999.post-63156284731648640032012-11-28T14:35:21.202-06:002012-11-28T14:35:21.202-06:00There is 'strong' atheism the adherents of...There is 'strong' atheism the adherents of which claim there is no god at all<br /><br />There is 'weak' atheism the adherents of which claim there is no evidence of god<br /><br />The question about agnostics is kinda tricky. In my experience most agnostics arent really, they dont believe in god but are to scared to deal with that fact and see it as a compromise so as not to offend the believers in their lives.<br /><br />The question I always ask agnostics to find out if they are truly are, or just posers, is if they are agnostic as to the existence of more than just the monotheistic god. <br /><br />Are you also agnostic towards to idea of the thousands of other deities? Do you hold the notion that Thor, Tezcatilpoa, Brahamma, and Apollo may or may not exist as much as Elohiem/Israel?<br /><br />Cause if not you arent really agnostic<br /><br />As for myself I identify as a weak atheist, I see no evidence or trace of god and live my life accordingly<br /><br />As far as reasonable beliefs systems, IMO<br /><br />1.Weak Atheists<br /><br />2.Deists, Real agnostics<br /><br />3.Polytheists, Strong Atheists,<br /><br />4.Monotheists<br /><br />5.Conciliatory/Apologetic agnostics<br /><br />lujlphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04733034389186623855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7318606957645672999.post-37867700768727437742012-11-28T14:25:09.143-06:002012-11-28T14:25:09.143-06:00I'm agnostic too. After years of saying "...I'm agnostic too. After years of saying "I know the church is true" it feels good to say "I don't know."Donna Bantahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01271377907141866718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7318606957645672999.post-41153786980772869242012-11-28T13:43:03.855-06:002012-11-28T13:43:03.855-06:00That is wonderful - thank you so much for sharing!...That is wonderful - thank you so much for sharing!postmormongirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13455759739126093761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7318606957645672999.post-65950370608508780862012-11-28T13:20:01.553-06:002012-11-28T13:20:01.553-06:00Your post reminded me of one of my favorite poems....Your post reminded me of one of my favorite poems.... "Our Limitations," by Oliver Wendell Holmes. Holmes' specific religious beliefs are a bit of a mystery, but he did outright reject his father's strict Calvanism and his references to religion are often questions more than answers. <br /><br />WE trust and fear, we question and believe,<br />From life's dark threads a trembling faith to weave,<br />Frail as the web that misty night has spun,<br />Whose dew-gemmed awnings glitter in the sun.<br />While the calm centuries spell their lessons out,<br />Each truth we conquer spreads the realm of doubt;<br />When Sinai's summit was Jehovah's throne,<br />The chosen Prophet knew his voice alone;<br />When Pilate's hall that awful question heard,<br />The Heavenly Captive answered not a word.<br />Eternal Truth! beyond our hopes and fears<br />Sweep the vast orbits of thy myriad spheres!<br />From age to age, while History carves sublime<br />On her waste rock the flaming curves of time,<br />How the wild swayings of our planet show<br />That worlds unseen surround the world we know.Kristenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09949516359154119866noreply@blogger.com